-
Help setting up basketweave for 8 shaft project
Hello,
I want to be sure I correctly thread for basket weave when using 8 shafts and need guidance on the correct tie up for a floor loom. I plan to make towels . I am going to thread straight twill but want to have a 1 inch stripe of basketweave between my 4 inch twill stripes. I know I need to have two shafts for the basketweave. To spread out the heddles can I do the first stripe of basketweave for example with the extra heddle on shafts 2/4 ( 22/44) and the next stripe on shafts 6/8 (66/88)? I have looked at multiple tie-ups and just want to be sure I don’t have floats . Any suggestions or guidance would be appreciated. I have already created the wrap and have half the loom threaded in the reed. I originally was just going to use 4 shafts and understood what I needed to do, but really would like to spread the threading over all 8 shafts.
Thanks again for any or all help
-
16 Replies
-
There are a few considerations. You mention the issue of enough heddles. How many heddles do you have available on each shaft? How many ends in the project? Perhaps you have enough without needing to re-arrange things?
You say you don’t want floats, but there will be floats as the weave structures intersect. As in perhaps 3 or 4 ends.
Let me do a weaving draft…
-
OK – 3 thread floats where the weave structures flow one into the other.
Be aware, though, that using these two weave structures side by side the tension in the two areas *may* begin to cause issues. You can overcome any take up differences by weaving twill all the way across the warp in weft stripes, making ‘blocks’ of basketweave on a twill ‘ground’.
Since the basket weave stripe is threaded exactly the same as the rest, just tie up the other four treadles to weave twill on both sets of four shafts.
Personally I would begin and end with twill all the way across in order to do the hems, anyway, but that’s personal preference.
-
Dear Laura,
Thank you so much for you attention to my question. I was able to open your wif file with a demo of Fiberworks. I have not yet purchased the program but will soon as I just purchased a new computer last weekend. Unfortunately I can not send you a wif file of what I originally was going to do but will attempt to explain.
Project – Towels 24 inches wide
12 dent reed with 2 threads per dent
4 harness loom
Threading : 16 thread Broken Twill ( 321,4321,4,1234,1234) repeated 6 times for a total of 96 heddles. 1st stripe 4 inches wide .
Next
Threading Basketweave (22,44) repeat 6 times for a total of 24 threads so 24 heddles
The 4 inch wide stripe will be repeated 5 times ( 96×5 equals 480 heddles)
The 1 inch wide strip will be repeated 4 times ( 24 x4 equals 96 heddles )
Total heddles needed 576
4 shaft loom
1 120 heddles
2. 120 heddles plus 48 for basketweave ( 168)
3. 120 heddles
4. 120 heddles plus 48 for basketweave (168)
Total : 576
(Tie up: 1 -1,2, Treadle straight draw 1,2,3,4
2- 2,3
3, 3.4
4, 1,4
What prompt me to ask the question was the recent purchase of an 8 shaft loom.
I have plenty of heddles on each of the 8 shafts. So that is not a problem.
If I understand what your were suggesting, I just think of the loom as two 4 harness looms. Thread harness 5-8 as I did for 1-4 and treadle twill across the entire warp and because of the tie -up, my basket weave stripe will show up.
I noticed that you only have me using 4 treadles. Will the tie up you suggested work with the threading I would like to do? If not, can you suggest what would works?. I am feeling that the tie up that I was going to originally do may not produce the basketweave correctly. That is where I have really been struck in trying to understand the weaving process. Your suggestion of only using 4 treadles was interesting as I thought I had to use all 8 and possibly two more just for the basketweave.
Am I correct that I would treadle 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 and repeat the entire length of the towel since I am using all 8 shafts?
I am also wondering if for the second and third towel if I could change the treadling but keep the tie – up you suggested ?
I thank you in advance for all your help. I am sure you never intended to spend so much time answering a question when you initially responded. Hopefully, as I take more lessons in the academy I will become a better problem solver. Weaving software will certainly help as well.
Truly grateful,
Joan
-
To make sure I understand, I’ve put the numbers into Fiberworks (and made a couple of tweaks that I think would work ‘better’ than what I understand (or misunderstood) from what you said. I’ve done one repeat of a reduced repeat in order to fit it into this comment.
-
If this is correct, then the twill area would be better called a point progression, or extended point progression, not a ‘broken’ twill which actually breaks up the twill lines. (Hair splitting, perhaps, but that’s what I get ‘paid’ for! :D )
So yes, you can think of an 8 shaft loom as twinned (fraternal, not identical) 4 shaft looms. They can either behave the same, or differently depending on how you set them up, the variables being threading, tie up and treadling.
Back to Fiberworks for an 8 shaft version…
-
Here is an 8 shaft version that is threaded the ‘same’ but not in order to keep the floats so that make a more ‘elegant’ transistion between the two weave structures.
-
I could tweak it around some more because the one side of the block isn’t as nice as the others, but I want to make sure this is the direction you want to go before I mess with it any more?
-
For example, I’m unsure if the intent is to have diamonds in the weaving or not? That would change the treadling sequence…
-
-
-
-
Dear Laura,
Once again thanks for your quick response. I appreciate you clarifying the actually name of the twill . The basket and twill wif was definitely closer to what I was thinking. My only concern is it appear to be a 17 thread design pattern repeat and I only have 16 threads for each of my repeats. I have already make the wrap and thread half of it in the reed. That is why on the initial four draft pattern I started at shaft 3 vs 4. ( Hopefully that makes sense if you look back at my previous note). Seems like it is smart to use only 4 treadles vs 8 or 10.
Yes, I was hoping for diamonds. I appear to want it all!!
The 8 shaft version of basket and twill confuses me as it looks like the basketweave is more of a design in the weave vs a separate stripe in the towel. My mistake if I am not interpreting it correctly.
Would it make more sense to thread the loom in a straight draw and work on an 8 shaft tie- up and treadling sequence that would ensure basketweave stripes when treadling twill? I know I could make it simple and forget about the basketweave but I just wanted to understand how to weave two structures in one cloth using 8 shafts. I still don’t quite grasp how a two shaft basket weave gets woven on 8 shafts. Do you just put the extra heddles needed on just 2 of the 8 shafts or do you spread them out if you think of the loom as “two fraternal twins”? I am actually quite flexible with any twill pattern it doesn’t have to be a point progression. Also, I am not sure about the floats. I understand since these are towels that I really want them to be structurally sound so I don’t actually want any floats, correct?
I have creative insecurity and impractical curiosity .
Thanks
-
If you have already begun threading, then proceed as you have begun.
If you want warp wise stripes of two different weave structures then you have to thread them (program them) in such a way as to accomplish that. The easiest way is to treat each group of four shafts independently. The draft I sent was just one example of a way to accomplish this, not the only way it could be done. (Clear as mud, I know!) :D
While it is true basket weave is ‘only’ a two shaft minimum requirement, it can be spread out over more shafts which gives more options. In the case of the draft I sent, the ability to weave both basket weave and twill at times, AND twill in both sections.
To thread a straight draw over 8 shafts means that you will have only 8 threads in a repeat, so there have to be more threads repeated on one set of four shafts to create the twill diamonds while ALSO creating stripes of a different weave structure – ie basket weave – again repeating enough times to make the width of stripe you desire.
I adjusted the threading to create the fewest floats of more than 2, and a more distinctive division between the two different weave structures. It is not the only way to accomplish this.
Can you send your actual threading so I can see exactly what it is you are doing?
-
Fortunately I have not started to thread, just have put threads in the reed, which can easily be moved. I created this wrap before I learned how to wrap back to front. Originally when I was just going to make the towels using only 4 shafts the treading was 321, 4321, 4, 1234, 4321 which equals 16 threads. I was then just going to repeat the same thing 6 times so it would be a 4 inch wide vertical stripe. Next I was going to thread 22.44 6 x’s for a total of 24 thread for a 1 inch vertical strip . Repeat the whole process 4 more times.
Very helpful to understand that I have to program ( thread the 4 shafts differently to have two different weave structures in the wrap.
” In the case of the draft I sent, the ability to weave both basketweave and twill at times, AND twill in both sections”
Which specific draft from the 3 that you sent are your referring to? The 8 shaft basket and twill, basket and twill or twill and basketweave?
Wrap Threading Review: 5 vertical colored 4 inch wide stripes with a 1 inch white vertical basket weave strip altering between the 5 vertical strips. So you are staying that from the draft you sent that when I treadle twill with the tie -up you provided the basketweave will always appear in the white stripe and twill in the colored strips? If yes, that is exactly what I want. Once again please clarify what draft draft that was.
I was planning on a 24 inch wide towel and my loom has a max of 26 inches ( Schacht Baby Wolf). I currently have an “even number of threads for each set of stripes. 96 threads for the color stripes and 24 threads for the 1 inch basket weave stripes. I am afraid that if I add an extra thread to get an “odd number of threads in the strips” which would be 30 more threads or 1 1/4 wider I will struggle with the selvages, as I am not that proficient of a weaver. Sooooo I have no idea if that means the twill diamonds are not possible. I prefer a wider towel and hesitant to go too narrow. Yet flexible and open to your suggestions and recommendations. Fiber is 8/2 cotton.
Laura, I realize you have already committed a tremendous amount of time and hope you don’t regret it. Your suggestions and questions certainly have me thinking clearly.
Thank you so much.
-
I will get back to you later today. A friend is coming for a visit in a couple of minutes and I need time to think about this. ????
-
Enjoy your visit! No need to think about my project. Rest and relax. Perhaps a break is just what we both need to eventually have an aha moment!!
-
Hi Joan,
After thinking it over for a while, I suggest that you simply thread your warp as indicated in your pattern on the first four shafts until you run out of heddles, and then if you need more, thread the rest of the warp on the other set of four shafts. The tie up would be on four treadles with the back shafts tied up exactly the same way, then treadled as per the pattern.
Does that make sense?
-
-
-
Thank you Laura. Yes, your suggestion makes prefect sense.
I appreciate all your input the past few days. I will move forward on my project.
Happy Holidays.
Joan
Log in to reply.